Lucie is the beautiful, caring, devoted wife of Charles Darnay. She may be Charles Dickens' idea of the perfect woman. Madame Defarge, on the other hand, is evil incarnate. Brutal, vengeful, overbearing and sinister, she may be Charles Dickens' notion of all the very worst characteristics of humanity. Which of these two characters do you like better? Which is the most interesting? Which is the most human of the two?
Thursday, March 20, 2008
Lucie vs. Madame Defarge
Lucie is the beautiful, caring, devoted wife of Charles Darnay. She may be Charles Dickens' idea of the perfect woman. Madame Defarge, on the other hand, is evil incarnate. Brutal, vengeful, overbearing and sinister, she may be Charles Dickens' notion of all the very worst characteristics of humanity. Which of these two characters do you like better? Which is the most interesting? Which is the most human of the two?
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71 comments:
lucie is the perfect woman, madame defarge is the scary one. isnt this a little stereotypical just assigning one trait to each character?
i also dont even understand why madame defarge is going soo crazy. the guys who killed her brother and sister are already dead. why is she dwelling on the past?
*pumpkin*
I like Lucie better because she is nicer and she is so kind. Madame Defarge is pretty much a life-ruiner. She just wants to get revenge for something that happened a long time ago and she is willing to hurt people to get that revenge. *sunshine*
I think that madame defarge is more human and i think that lucie is too perfect. i don't like either all the way. i like some aspects of both people so if you smash the two together it would be okay.
-giggles745
i agree i like some parts of each lady and yes lucie is wayy to perfect!!
lucie
I respect the fact that Dickens is trying to reach both ends of the evil vs good spectrum... but it kind of creates flat characters. The only depth I saw in either of them was Madame Defarge caring for her family.
-The Beast
I personally liked Defarge better until she became all psycho scary. She was more interesting. Not all perfect and pretty and lovey-dovey and make me gag. She was powerful and knew how to get what she wanted. Whereas Lucie was just all nice, and cute, and everyone loved her, and she was just icky. Someone's who's perfect just can't be trusted. <.< Really, I'd say Defarge is more human, other than the fact that her actions are pretty inhumane. But she has her flaws, although it says in the beginning that she doesn't look like she would make many mistakes. So yeah. Lucie sucks... and Defarge is psycho.
-Shukumei
I have to agree with (the first poster)on this one. Although I hate that creepy woman Defarge (notice I replaced the title of Madame with the title of creepy woman, its much better earned)The fact is that I have never met a Lucie in my life. Creepy Woman Defarges are everywhere.
~MonsignorGuillotine
lucie is too perfect... its to easy to control people when they do what ever you say.
beachbum
lolz lucie is too perfect theres no one that "perfect" everyone has flaws deal with it ppl
-trevz
people have good traits and bad traits that sometime outshine eachother. so sometimes we only see the good or bad in people. and not both. we all carry both these traits.
*pumpkin*
This is tough because neither of them is really a true representation of human personality. I agree with giggles745 saying that a mixture of the two characters would be a more accurate representation.
I find both of them interesting in the fact that they are on opposite ends of the spectrum, which is a little exaggerative [if that's a real word.]
-mccrizzle92
I like Madame Defarge better!
She is a STRONG WILLED women, she knows what she wants, and how to get it. Lucie, is always to sweet, and perfect! Thinking of a girl like Lucie, would be like trying to be one of those computer generated models. It is impossible to that completely flawless. Madame Defarge is the kind of women that a girl could look up to, if she didn't want to kill so many people. She is without questioning the most human. she has been hurt, and she wants revenge!
Sud- SmileLikeYouMeanIt
I personally like Lucie better, but not because she is perfect, but because of the way she treats other people. I think Madame Defarge's character is more interesting just because she is very unpredictable unlike Lucie who always does good. Madame Defarge is probably the most human just because everyone is more naturally a little mean rather than always perfect and nice.
- 2lex
I wholly agree with the poster that said the excessive desire to have a character that is metaphoric of pure good and a character that is 'pure evil' makes for some really flat characters.
"It's the honest ones you have to watch out for because you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you need to watch out for, because you never know when they are going to do something completely stupid."
-Captain Jack Sparrow
^That makes for an entertaining character.
~MonsignorGuillotine
like the perfect one (aka lucie)
the "creepy woman" is quite scary. since the creepy woman is the realistic it makes me think that the world we live in is kind of a scary.
i wouldn't mind a couple of lucies to balance out the defarges.
-V
Even though I do not like Madame Defarge I believe that she is the more human of the two because in real life people are not as perfect as Lucie. I think it is just humanly impossible. So, Madame Defarge is more human than Lucie. *Sunshine*
i like madame defarge better because she may be portrayed as evil but she just is asserting her power in any way that she can. If you act like Lucie all the time people will walk all over you and use you for whatever they can get.
*spoiled princess*
I agree with 2lex because I don't really like Madame Defarge but I do like that she is so crazy that she is utterly unpredictable! You never know what she is going to do next whereas Lucie only does good things so you know whatever she does it will be good. *Sunshine*
I disagree V. In a battle of Lucie's verse Defarges Defarge would win every single time. Notice it was Miss Pross, a strong willed good character, who had to defeat her. If Dickens had Lucie win in a head-to-head fight with Defarge it would be totally unbelievable.
So in that situation I wouldn't want a bunch of Lucie's on my side. They'd just get in my way.
~MonsignorGuillotine
what are you guys talking about Madam Defarge is the cool one. she is the back bone of the revolution.
-cydonia
interesting use of the pirates line monsignorguillotine.
i like it.
it fits well i think.
-mccrizzle92
I think Dickens' idea of the perfect woman is kinda creepy Lucie is way to nice and perfect. The opposite of Lucie, Madame Defarge, is really scary and cruel. Dickens' idea of these two is way extreme, nobody is that perfect and not many people are that evil(hopefully).
~stephanie
MonsignorGuillotine i certainly would not want lucie beside me in a fight and defarge would definatley dominate what i'm saying is that it would be nice to have someone who completly devoted themselves to you and gave you whatever you wanted.
-V
i like the quote of captain jack sparrow too. its true and very fitting in this situation/blog.
kudos.
*pumpkin*
Okay if I was in a fight or in the Revolution I would want Madame Defarge on my "team" because she really kicks butt and when the time comes she will do whatever she needs to get what she wants whereas Lucie is kind of afraid to do what she needs to do ya' know?? *Sunshine*
i agree with 'smile like u mean it' to a certain point. with lucie i absolutely agree that lucie is WAY too perfect to us because she doesn't have a mind of her own and she does what shes told. but in those days that was the 'perfect' woman because men didn't want women to have minds of their own, they wanted to be able to order them around. but m.defarge is more of the modern day woman because she does have a mind of her own and she basically does what she wants, and she doesn't take crap from her husband if she doesn't want it.
-snapple
Honestly, its kind of weird to have someone totally devoted to you. Remember that short film we watched? Where the man gave the girl he liked the potion to make her fall in love with him totally and completely. Yaaaaaaa. He kind of killed himself after he did it. I think having a Lucie all over me would drive me insane. I'd want my spouse to disagree with me.
~MonsignorGuillotine
Does any body else find it a little weird that Lucie never does one bad thing ever and that shes some shining beacon of truth I mean seriously get into some trouble for once
JrEagles09
i agree with the guillotine dude... theres no point to a relationship its its like perfect and she never controls or she never want to do anything else besides what you want to do all the time... it gets tiering doing all of the decision making.
--beachbum
cydonia,
i disagree with you. madame defarge may have been the "backbone" but she took it way too far!! she didn't have a reason to take it as far as she did
~lucie
idk i think it woulda been interesting if lucie had been killed in the end, plus it wouldve left the book with a much cleaner ending, honestly unless all the main characters in a book die ur left wondering wat happened
-trevz
JrEagles09 everyone seems to likes a little bad in their girl
eh eh
-V
Dude... the whole book is centered around Lucie. Everything happens around Lucie and because of Lucie. You can't chop her head off! 'Sides, who wants to have innocent Lucie killed? I bet that would have brought his ratings down...
-Shukumei
People need to give Lucie a break. Some say she is to perfect or she never is upset, but I think she is just fine. First of all she was just a normal English women of her time and that's how they acted. And secondly, she is human and has real emotions. I think she was trying to be strong for everyone around her because in hard times people need someone to look up to and they find comfort in the strong. If she broke down everyone would be so upset because they would know that if Lucie can't handle the situation, no one can.
-Mona Lisa
cydonia,
George Washington and John Hancock and 100 other respectable people served as the backbone of the revolution in America.
Being the backbone of a revolution that kills innocent people thousands at a time, and threatens innocent women and children, is nothing to be proud of.
~MonsignorGuillotine
I agree with JrEagles09, there is no way somebody could be that perfect and never get in trouble. However, her life during the French Revolution while they were in France was horrible; her husband was thrown in jail to be let out then thrown in again after a couple of hours. Her life sucked like totally hardcore man.
~stephanie
For the plot to work, lucie HAD to have been perfect, or at least outrageously attractive. Without all those men wanting her all at the same time, the darnay/carton swithout would have never happened. Her perfection was a major plot device, so if it seems stereotypical so be it.
-quakken
I disagree. in the movie there is something about Lucie that is creepy. I don't think that i would consider asking her out.
-cydonia
just because thats how they were supposed to ask, does not mean thats how they should. and she does not have any emotion. if she does then she does not show them, she does whatever shes told, but if you like that kind of shallow person then i guess your a shallow person too.
--beachbum
MonsignorGuillotine do not dis AMERICA we fought so that you could be hear if you feel such disregard for the people that gave their lives for us i call you a commie.
-V
what does that have to do with anything???
--beachbum
cydonia, it was probably the hair. It was frightening.
The peasant woman Carton meets at the end is the best looking in the whole movie because shes the only one in the entire movie with real hair.
But that's just a little off topic :-)
~MonsignorGuillotine
Madame Defarge has a reason to be angry. Her family has been murdered, kidnapped, and worse. But she went to far. It just goes to show you how the desire for revenge can corrupt a person.
-The Beast
monsure or what ever your name is, did madam defrage ever kill innocent people directly. Yah exactly.
-cydonia
she knitted in the beginning of the book but she kill alot of people later in the book... she was power crazy...
--beachbum
V, I'm the most patriotic person I know. Not once in my statement did I dis America. Seriously, I said Defarge was evil for being the backbone of an evil revolution. Being a revolutionist doesnt make her automatically good. She could have been like our founding fathers and been revolutionary and do it the right way.
So essentially I'm saying America is the only country I can think of thats ever done a revolution right. How on earth do you get me dissing America out of that?
~MonsignorGuillotine
cydonia she was gonna kill little lucie and she killed the guard in the bastille and he was just hanging out there doin his job.
-V
Cydonia, she ordered people to be killed and FRAMED people to be killed. That's just as bad. She's also collectively guilting people.
She directly killing the people she framed, and her weapons are her loyal soldiers and the guillotine.
-quakken
cydonia,
yes madame defarge did kill innocent people all those people who worked in the bastille never killed innocent pepople but still deserved to die??
~lucie
cydonia, she was killed trespassing in a house, in possession of a knife and a pistol, asking for the family of an innocent prison. Do you think she was coming over for a cup of tea?
~MonsignorGuillotine
I agree with 'The Beast'.
I can understand why Madame Defarge was angry and wanted revenge against the everemonds but planning the slaughter of lucie and little lucie is going a little bit far. They weren't even aware that Darnay was an everemonde until the trial.
So yes, the desire for revenge does corrupt a person fairly heavily.
-mccrizzle92
Cydonia,
I agree with V. We never got an opportunity to see how far Defarge was going to go with her killing (fortunately, but she was going to kill a sixish year old DIRECTLY. That is disgusting! Only evil can do this.
-The Beast
yah duh. what do you think she was doing. you guys just have violent minds.
-cydonia
Hey Beast whats the definition of Evil
JrEagles09
Here's a question for you guys:
Is indirectly killing (framing someone, allowing starvation in Africa, etc.) as bad as directly killing someone (stabbing, shooting, etc.)???????
-The Beast
but she didnt want to kill them until they found out who they were...
--baechbum
cydonia we dont have violent minds. madame defarge is the one with a viokent mind!!
~lucie
people don't allow people to starve they just cant do anything about it.
--beachbum
and monseigneur guillotine, (this is a reply to a comment WAYYY back) america is not the only country to have done a revolution.
In india, ghandhi led a completely nonviolent revolution against britain. there are others to.
Just think a little bit.
-Quakken
the beast,
yes it is just as bad to indirectly kill someone.
~lucie
The beast,
I agree because I think that telling someone to kill someone is just as bad as killing someone yourself because you are still the cause of that death.
-2lex
JrEagles08,
Good question. Now that's philosophy. Ha ha. Personally, I try my best to take things from a biblical perspective... but it varies from person to person. However, can you deny that killing a child is evil? Especially in this case where it is virtually pointless. What do you think??
-The Beast
The Beast-
neither of them are better!
to kill someone directly or indirectly, would be terrible... killing all together is wrong!
We are all Humans, and all Gods creation.. and yet we go around killing each other for virtually no reason.
-SmileLikeYouMeanIt
It may be even worse to indirectly kill somebody, because making someone else kill someone also makes them feel guilty for being forced (and sometimes paid) to take another knife.
-Quakken
-The Beast i like my breakfast and would share it with some one in Africa but they are soooooooo far away
-V
You could say that by not saving the lives of the starving people in Africa that you are indirectly killing them.
-Mr. Owl
Ok mr. Cydonia. If you read the above comments, you'll see that most people believe that indirect murder is as bad as direct... which suggests that Defarge is one of the worst mass muderers ever.
-The Beast
Beast indirectly killing someone and doing it directly are totally different things you can control what you do unless your being brain controlled and in that case sucks for you but anyway what you do is up to you and something going on a 100,000 miles away from here has nothing to do with us unless its a war or a kidnapping or something I say let sleeping dogs lie
JrEagles09
Indirect is worse. You're involving other people.
-Quakken
i am right and every one who is against me is wrong......... just kidding.
-cydonia
The character that i really like best was Madamn Defarge. She was a good example of a very strong woman who stood up for what she really wanted and she didn't let anything get in her way. there were no excuses for anyone.
I think that both women are the extreme of "good" and "bad". Madamn Defarge was incredibly cruel and was almost so straight in her ways that she would kill little lucie to get her way. She was the prime example of a cruel crazy woman. But yet Lucie is so caring ans sweet and never gets mad or intollerable or cruel, but i doubt that there is someone that has never gotten mad before and has never shown any emotion but happiness and that will pretty much do anything someone tells her to do. SO i think that neither are very human.... I think that a combination of the two would be a very realistic combo.
swizzle
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